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8.01.2003

thoughts on women (real date: 5/19/04)


ninnakitten: btw
paintthetree: ?
ninnakitten: for like the first time ever
paintthetree: !
ninnakitten: proud to live in mass.
paintthetree: nice.
paintthetree: it's fully legal now, right?
ninnakitten: yup.
ninnakitten: YAY
paintthetree: let's get married!
paintthetree: wait, no, that would be THE WORST IDEA EVER
paintthetree: heh
ninnakitten: ha ha ha ha ha ahah
ninnakitten: altho quite amusing
paintthetree:
paintthetree: you can wear a tiara
ninnakitten: i'd be a bad wife.
ninnakitten: !!!!!!!!
ninnakitten: promise??????
paintthetree: yep
paintthetree: you wont be a wife
paintthetree: we need to come up with new terms for partners that dont involve wife
paintthetree: or husband
paintthetree: but are also more specific than partner
paintthetree: which could be like for a business or something
ninnakitten: well
ninnakitten: i kind of already think of "wife" in a certain way
paintthetree: like how
ninnakitten: like, the kind of thing that a surgeon has to take care of him/her
ninnakitten: u know?
ninnakitten: so a man could be one of those
paintthetree: you mean, emotionally supportive not too aggressive/individualistic
ninnakitten: in fact, tony said he'd be my wife
paintthetree: i.e. traditionally female
ninnakitten: exactly
ninnakitten: cooks, walks the dog
ninnakitten: makes you cute lunches
ninnakitten: omg
paintthetree: so have we come far enough that a term that used to be synonymous with 'woman' can now apply to a man without any issues
ninnakitten: just read your thing about sex and infertility
paintthetree: like, do you look down on your wife?
paintthetree: is your wife not so bright?
ninnakitten: well
ninnakitten: i don't know
paintthetree: can you be a woman and still have a wife?
paintthetree: or do you have to be manly
ninnakitten: you can be a woman and still have a wife
paintthetree: is that even an issue
ninnakitten: i dunno if wife is brite
ninnakitten: hard to imagine a brite person being so subservient
ninnakitten: u know?
paintthetree: the issue for me is this - are you using the tools that a few generations ago someone would have used against you
paintthetree: to keep you from being a doctor
paintthetree: i have no problem with peopel taking more or less powerful roles
paintthetree: if they choose freely
paintthetree: i dont know if that choice is possible though
ninnakitten: rite
ninnakitten: of course
paintthetree: and language plays into that
paintthetree: i also get annoyed when peopel critize 'male' systems of governance
paintthetree: i.e., hierarchy
ninnakitten: hai
paintthetree: and talk about alternate modes
paintthetree: female ones,
paintthetree: being 'cooperation'
paintthetree: which does a coulple of bad things
paintthetree: first, it says that cooperation is for the weak
ninnakitten: hai
paintthetree: second, it says that hierarchy means domination
paintthetree: and that a woman can't participate without denying her identity
paintthetree: or somethig
ninnakitten: blarg
paintthetree: cant you learn the langugage of your oppressor in order to defeat it?
paintthetree: or in speaking that language, do you become your enemy?
paintthetree: if all the smart women 'act like men'
paintthetree: where does that leave the women who don't act like men?
paintthetree: do they deserve to lose because they don't?
paintthetree: what happens when we train ourselves to be really annoyed by girly girls?
paintthetree: i mean, i definitely find them annoying to my core
ninnakitten: yah
paintthetree: but i'm wondernig if i do so because 'they are weak'
ninnakitten: hai
ninnakitten: i oft wonder the same
paintthetree: i just read 'feminism unmodified'
ninnakitten: maybe it's cuz they;re *shrill*
paintthetree: which has got me thinking about htis gender stuff
paintthetree: ok, shrill is bad
paintthetree: and also it's annoying to watch reasonably intelligent women pretending to be stupid for the boys
paintthetree: and not even realizing that they're doing it
ninnakitten: i hate that the most
ninnakitten: THE MOSt
paintthetree: but they also didn't have mothers who taught them otherwise
paintthetree: what i want is a way out of the male/female duality
paintthetree: where it has to be one or the other
ninnakitten: rite
ninnakitten: hai
paintthetree: where people will be able to communicate without having to take on the exact same mode
paintthetree: i.e., 'male' mode of discourse or something
paintthetree: i also want more cooperative methods to be described as more efficient, not 'nicer' or 'more caring'... i.e., more weak and female
ninnakitten: hai def
ninnakitten: b/c then ppl feel weak when they compromise
paintthetree: right
paintthetree: how do you see this playing out at the hospital?
ninnakitten: hm.
ninnakitten: well
ninnakitten: there
ninnakitten: s
ninnakitten: definitely a weirdness to the women surgeons
ninnakitten: u know?
ninnakitten: i think a lot choose to be "mannish" but not one of the boys
ninnakitten: ie, mean and surly
ninnakitten: but not funny and buddyish with the guys
ninnakitten: so, not feminine, and also not boyfriendly
ninnakitten: it's weird
paintthetree: is it evenly distributed throughout, or more true of the older ones?
ninnakitten: def tru of some of the younger ones too
paintthetree: how old is the youngest one?
paintthetree: do you think that you are unique in your ability to be one of the boys?
ninnakitten: a couple years older than me
paintthetree: what are the other girls who want to into surgery like?
ninnakitten: well...unclear
ninnakitten: hm.
ninnakitten: they're not like me
ninnakitten: but very few me kids are like me
ninnakitten: so it's hard to say
ninnakitten: you know?
ninnakitten: med kids i meant
paintthetree: hai
ninnakitten: i will observe them more closely
paintthetree: what do you think makes us so different?
paintthetree: i'm thinking of the farm
ninnakitten: well
paintthetree: like, raver doctor, raver law students, raver consultent
ninnakitten: i dunno
ninnakitten: i think our ability to blend the two worlds
paintthetree: is that transmittable?
ninnakitten: that may seem obv
paintthetree: is it a way of thinking?
ninnakitten: maybe our NEED to blend the two
ninnakitten: i think it's deeper than that
paintthetree: uh huh
paintthetree: go on
ninnakitten: well, dunno
ninnakitten: i mean
ninnakitten: for me the partying seems inherent
ninnakitten: as does the medness
ninnakitten: there's a hedonism to it, of course, and an acceptance of physical pleasure as ok
ninnakitten: that some med kids lack
ninnakitten: a comfort with self and desire
ninnakitten: a confidence and aggression, u know?
ninnakitten: a feeling that it's ok to have what you want just because you want it
paintthetree: right
paintthetree: not really a christian thing
ninnakitten: yah
ninnakitten: but not just that
ninnakitten: i dunno
paintthetree: actually, you're going to do the most good for society if you follow that mantra
ninnakitten: med skool takes discipline
paintthetree: doing what you want because you want it
paintthetree: in terms of your life's path
ninnakitten: and some ppl equate that with denial
ninnakitten: of everything
paintthetree: right
ninnakitten: silly fucks.
paintthetree: heh
paintthetree: maybe that's the only way they can be disciplines
paintthetree: disciplined
ninnakitten: hm
ninnakitten: per
ninnakitten: haps
paintthetree: tell me more about how men and women med students relate to each other
paintthetree: do the same things happen as did in undergrad?
ninnakitten: weirdly i think
ninnakitten: it is more like hi skool than undergrad in some ways
ninnakitten: cept that ppl r looking to get married
paintthetree: ha
paintthetree: which means that women are still playing those courting games?
paintthetree: where they act dumb?
ninnakitten: ooooohhhh yes.
ninnakitten: yes they do.
paintthetree: and how does it work out for them?
paintthetree: do the men treat them like they're stupid?
ninnakitten: yes.
ninnakitten: sometimes.
paintthetree: are you the only one who doesn't get this?
ninnakitten: no no
ninnakitten: there are a bunch who do
paintthetree: are there any less aggressive types than you who also manage to command respect?
ninnakitten: but i'm a lot more aggro than most of the med girls
ninnakitten: yah
ninnakitten: there are some quietly smart types
paintthetree: respect commanding?
ninnakitten: ppl respect their knowledge
paintthetree: have you found any women doctors who are mentor types? or are they all too bitter.
ninnakitten: no no
ninnakitten: some are highly goot
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